Glock handguns -- another accidental discharge

A fellow who organizes and runs various competitive shooting events at the Midland Shooters Association rifle and pistol range circulated an email about an accidental discharge of a Glock handgun, with gruesome pictures no less.

Glock handgun are designed so that they can be shot fast.  There's no cumbersome external safety to fumble with before shooting.  And when there's a bullet in the chamber the hammer is almost fully cocked so there is only a minimal amount of trigger pressure needed to shoot it.  They are popular handguns, and many if not most police officers use them throughout the United States.

So when a handgun that easy to shoot is in such common usage there are bound to be accidents.   Some call them accidental discharges.  Others call them negligent discharges, because with every accident there was some inattention to detail by someone.

Glock owners need to be extremely careful, because in my opinion, their design, specifically the lack of an external safety, the inability to see from the outside whether there's a bullet in the chamber, the partially cocked hammer (which you also can't see), and the ease with which it can be fired make it more dangerous than most other brands.

I've written on this subject before, see Are Glock handguns safe? and Accidental police gun discharge - San Antonio.

If I didn't know it before, I certainly learned from reactions to those entries that Glock owners are very loyal to the brand.  But there is one thing on which Glock owners and I can agree:  they need to be very conscious of what they are doing when they handle a Glock handgun.  Daydreaming can be deadly.

I can't verify the truth and veracity of what that email writer says -- Snopes.com is silent about this.  And I don't know where this happened.  But it sounds plausible.  And the photos are very convincing.  So here's the email:

Not only did I set off a .45 in my garage, but I passed right through my left hand ...... Yep .... I *******ing shot myself point blank. I'm still having a hard time getting my head around what I did. I was SO angry at myself. I have always been uber safe with any firearm, but one lack of procedure changed everything. I'm really taking this hard, and all the "it could have been worse", "accidents happen", and "thank god you didn't lose your hand statements really don't help. I guess I'm getting over it, but it still seems very surreal to me.

Here are details....I know you all are morbidly curious, and I don't mind telling...it's kinda like therapy for me. I DID NOT hear the shot (nor did my ears ring afterwards), and it felt sorta like catching a fastball right in the palm of your glove. I have a very clear image, and suspect I always will, of the hole in my hand...perfect .45 diameter not bleeding....yet. I took a few seconds, and then the arterial arch in my palm cut loose. Blood like you wouldn't believe.  I think the fact that I was a Paramedic in a former life helped me out here. I walked into the laundry room and grabbed a towel to wrap it up, call up the stairs for my wife to come down.

I remember thinking "if I go get her, I'll mess up the carpet on the stairs". No lie. She came down half asleep and kind of grumpy, and I told her "I just put a bullet in my hand". Said she was calling 911 and according to her I responded "That would be a good idea.." My wife is neo-natal RN, and can remain cool as a cucumber. This helped me out too I think.

I went back into the garage, put my blasted hand on the floor kneeling on the towel and proceeded to open my ever present jump-bag with the other. I opened a US issue trauma dressing with my teeth, and proceeded to wrap my hand. Those dressing are the schiz nit by the way. My wife later told me it was very  "Die-Haredesque"......

I do remember cussing at myself the entire time...I have never been that angry before.....

Four cops, the shift sup., a pumper truck and am ambulance later I was off to the ER. I didn't feel any pain until I got in the ambulance. The endorphins shut down and it hurt like nothing you can imagine. No tickets from the cops, but did have to ask which weapon I did it with. My garage looks like an arsenal pre-range trip.

The bullet (a Black Talon no less..) shattered my ring finger meta-tarsal, and 'removed' two others. It destroyed the flexor tendon of my ring finger, almost separated my pinky tendon, and exited the right side of my wrist just above my watch band. There was a definite exit hole, but the blast force blew the side of my palm WIDE open about three inches in length. I didn't even see the exit wound until I removed my watch for the FD. Anyway, nine hours of surgery, three screws, a tendon graft from my forearm and about two-hundred sutures later I was put back together. My surgeon said if anyone has to get shot in the hand, this was how to do it. No nerve damage....whew. Physical therapy twice a week for god knows how long, and the surgeon expects at least 80% function back.

I've included a pic of the round. Snap-On tool boxes are quite literally bullet proof. The jacket separated from the slug when it hit the box, that's why the slug is flat on one side.

If  the mods permit, I'll post pics of my hand too.....it's pretty burly, and will drive the point home.

Thanks for listening. My wife thinks I'm crazy to post this, but it really does help me feel better. Remember....check  the chamber twice, then check it again.

--------------------------

Update 12/01/05; 5:40 pm. Gun sportsman John Krenik, who forwarded the above email, cordially disagrees with my points about Glock:

Quite frankly, I think that you are wrong about Glocks.  Of course we have dicussed that before.  I'm afraid that this would have just as easily happened with a springfield XD, 1911, or virtually any auto pistol.  Please remember that the guy intentionally pulled the trigger, had this been say a S&W 5906 he would have released the safety to fire it and the results would have been the same.  The gun did exactly what it was supposed to do.  Like any good firearm, a Glock fires each and every time the trigger is pulled when the gun is loaded, it will not fire unless the triggger is pulled.  The gentleman in this situation is, I feel, to be commended for telling us his story and also for not blaming the gun and putting the fault were it lies, with his poor operation of it.  My point in sending it on was to emphasize how inportant it is to be careful and attentative to what you are doing wh! en handling ANY gun.  I do realize that the anti-Glock people will point out that there are a lot of unintentional discharges with Glocks.  To a certain extent that's true, but mostly because ther are a LOT of Glocks out there, I read recently that the Glock 22 (just that one model) account for almost 50% of police duty sidearms in existance.  Of course when there are that many pistols out there, they will be involved in a lot more situations just because of sheer numbers.  the same reason that there are a lot more car crashes involving Fords than Ferraris.  While we may have to agree to disagree on this issue, I do encourage you to send it on, since we and many of our friends do handle loaded guns on a regular basis, it always helps to remember the possible repercussions of a moments inattention.  Thanks for writing and I'll see you soon.  John

Thanks John.  You are correct in saying that with so many Glock handguns out there that there is a good chance that any accidental discharge will involve a Glock.  And handlers of firearms should always exercise caution regardless of the brand.

Comments

[Bryan Montford]

This is likely a late post on an old topic.

I own a Springfield XD-9 Subcompact. I bought it because I felt a LOT more comfortable with the additional safety features than a Glock, especially in my household with four young children, and that I bought it with the intent to carry concealed.

I'm only underlining a lot of what's already been said here - the gun is only as safe as the person using it. Glocks have a very respectable following for a reason, though for my money and the lives of my family members I choose an XD.

The guy pulled the trigger and the machine did its dutiful job. (And AMEN that it did. I don't want to own a gun that doesn't fire immediately when I tell it to, every time I tell it to.)

I am a gunshot victim. Two rounds from two Mach 10's cost me a year of my life and I'll go to my grave with the results of the experience, both physiological and psychological.

Let the carrier of some lead earned the hard way share a secret few that have ever been on either side of a gun really seem to understand with great clarity, even though it's been said many times, in many ways.

Guns don't kill people. Humans do.

I'm thankful this gentleman got another chance. He's a credit to those who make the choice to live armed and I appreciate his decision to share his experience. God bless his bravery and honesty.

Thank you for being open enough to post both sides of the truth.

There is danger, and there is responsibility. Choose carefully. Be responsible regardless of your choice.

[Geo]

Well said, Bryan.

[Not Ignorant]

You wrote: "And when there's a bullet in the chamber the hammer is almost fully cocked so there is only a minimal amount of trigger pressure needed to shoot it."

Huh? You're wrong. Glock pistols do not have hammers. They are striker-fired. But you don't REALLY know what that means, do you? A Glock's trigger pull is relatively heavy at around 5.5lbs. It is also not dependent on whether there is a cartridge in the chamber or not.

Having a blog is a double-edged sword. You get to feel good about people reading what you write, but you also expose your ignorance...

[Eric Filmore]

"relatively heavy at around 5.5lbs" are you a GIRLY-MAN? relatively heavy my ass. I guess if you’re a SISSY-MAN. You should try going to the gym sometime. Work out your finger when your not dilling yourself. Oh, in your little mind, replace the word "hammer" with "striker" no big deal. Yea a blog is a double-edged sword. You get to see all the flamers come out. (are you from SF..) Oh... Was I flaming a flamer? Oops.

I HATE Flamers!

[CC Coleman]

Bashing aside - if you shoot conventional double action pistols, first shot hammer down - 5.5 pounds is nothing. 1911 Single Action Autos, Glocks, XD's, Ruger and SW Single Action 22's - all have what I consider to be hair triggers. My XD fires without a magazine loaded in the gun. You have to be so careful with all Single Action type guns - it is why I have prefered Double Action heavy triggers for the most part. I do own an XD though and special care is always going to be taken when handling it.

[you are misinformed]

There is no way to "half way cock" or "almost fully cock" a Glock handgun. The Glcok is either cocked or uncocked, and if a bullet is in the chamber the weapon is cocked, period. If the weapon is uncocked, the trigger can not be pulled. The trigger pull on any Glock pistol can be altered (made lighter or heavier) by changing the springs, but the pull remains constant whether or not a round is chambered.
Current production Glocks also feature a visual and tactile loaded chamber indicator, although it is subtle. If you have a round in the chamber, the extractor (the piece that ejects the spent casing when you fire) protruds slightly. You can see it if you look closely, but it is very easy to determine by running your finger along the side of the slide.
If anything, the thing that necessitates extra caution when handling Glocks is that the only way to uncock a Glock is by pulling the trigger. This has to be done if you want to uncock the pistol after checking to see that the chamber is loaded or cleaning the pistol. Other designs allow decocking in ways that do not involove pulling the trigger. You cannot decock a Glock with a round in the chamber. This design does create some risk that a person who is not paying attention may fire a live round without intending to.
So, there is no external safety on a Glock, but there is a loaded chamber indicator and the design of the gun in no way creates a hair trigger when a round is chambered. Also, Glocks have long been esteemed as one of the most reliable handguns. Reliable in firing when, and only when, the trigger is pulled.

[J. Paul Ouellette]

The year was 1992, I E.T.S. from the military and after returning home I purchased a Glock 23 .40 S&W. I read many gun magazines on how this fine weapon should be carried. All the while forgetting Jeff Cooper's famous statement: “Unless a gun has a round chambered in it, it is useless.” To think I believed in the 1990s gun magazines over Mr. Coopers statement. I was taught Mr. Cooper's mindset while in the military. 12 years mind you and I qualified expert during each year to boot. Treat all weapons as if they were loaded! Yet, the gun magazines, mostly retired civilian police, who preached civilians should carry a fully loaded magazine and NO round in the chamber, O.K. One day, I went to the gun store and purchased a Hogue slip on grip for my Glock. When I returned home, I retrieved my Glock with the knowledge that it has a loaded magazine with NO round in the chamber. I removed the magazine and proceeded to place the new slip-on grip, done. The grip was awesome it looked and felt nice. I looked at the wall clock and thought to myself, I have time to dissemble, clean and lube my Glock. Now for those of you real gun professionals, gun editors, who preach a lot of good stuff, I think not. I got into the false habit of thinking since I carry NO round in the chamber there was NO reason to check the chamber. I removed the magazine and the second thing one has to do prior to dissembling a Glock is squeeze the trigger. This releases the firing pin, so that the slide pins can be pulled downward and the upper slide removed. After squeezing the trigger and to my surprise, the Glock loudly discharged inside my Condo. I can assure anyone who has never experienced this situation. The mind instantly replays the moment in slow motion, what! The round made a small hole through the window blind. Yes, the round flatten after making another small hole through the glass window, striking the metal screen window. The metal screen window caused the round to flatten and spiral upward. If I were criminal, I would not have called the local police department to report this as an accidental discharge. Some of you pros call this negligence discharge, ya right. I took responsibility for my actions and called the local police department. I won't go into all the police details. I will say this: the police officer, which responded, was very level headed and very understanding. I quote him: "we searched the condo complex and found no one injured nor did we find any damages to property, however if someone should call later, you can be charged with Reckless Endangerment." No one called later. I hear all the gun experts saying: "always check the chamber first." This, after they preached civilians should never chamber a round, only carry the weapon with a loaded magazine, this way is safer than one round in the chamber. Ya, right. Needless to say, I don't read any of today's useless gun magazine anymore, rather I practice military procedure taught to me many years ago. So, by now everyone is thinking how did that round get chambered? During the police investigation, my wife was contacted at her work and she was requested to come home. The prior night she had taken my Glock to look at it. While looking at it, she pulled the slide partially rearward peering into the chamber to see if a round were in the chamber, never thinking by doing so, she would chamber a round. Again, to all you expert civilian gun instructors... yes, she had taken a gun safety course. Yes, women are curious and just as fascinated as men are with weapons. As much as I loved my (third) Glock, I sold it to repair the window(s). I purchased a snub nosed revolver should my wife ever need to use it. I don't need to squeeze the trigger as part of the disassembly procedure as is required by the Glock. Plus, I carry it fully loaded and treat it as such. I no longer think the way I learned from the 1990s gun magazine civilians, who wrote civilians should carry a pistol with no round in the chamber, but with a fully loaded magazine. The best training is military training. They are the true professionals.

[To Paul]

I'm sorry but you are an idiot. Squeezing the trigger without checking the chamber first is plain old ignorance at its finest. Trying to blame your ignorance on Glock is absolutely amazing to me. You and your wife are both idiots. Guns need to be treated with respect.

"I got into the false habit of thinking since I carry NO round in the chamber there was NO reason to check the chamber"

I'm speechless. I mean really, just read what you wrote here. Wow.

[Renegade]

ALWAYS CHECK THE CHAMBER! Every gun is always loaded, even when you think you left it empty!!!

What I don't get about the post by "you are misinformed"... what's the deal with blaming it on the 1990's civilian gun magazines?

I carry my weapon with a full mag and an empty chamber all the time, but I always check the chamber. Seriously, if you don't have time to rack the slide before you aim and shoot, you don't have time to pull it in the first place.

[postman]

your dumb for not teaching your wife about your guns

[Don]

"Seriously, if you don't have time to rack the slide before you aim and shoot, you don't have time to pull it in the first place."

Wrong! There may be a situation where your weak hand is blocking a weapon or injured. If you want to carry this way, get a revolver.

[Jimpro]

""Seriously, if you don't have time to rack the slide before you aim and shoot, you don't have time to pull it in the first place."

Wrong! There may be a situation where your weak hand is blocking a weapon or injured. If you want to carry this way, get a revolver."

Or better yet get a pistol that allows you to draw, flip a safety off, and shoot with the same hand...or a NY trigger if you must carry racked.. I wonder what's more likely, an accidental discharge by carrying a racked glock or finding yourself in a situation with a wounded weak hand or blocking a weapon with it...there comes a time when the risk you seek to prevent is exceeded by the risk you take protecting yourself from it... carrying a glock racked is condition zero...that tiny safety is in the center of the trigger.. I challenge you to pull the trigger without engaging it......would you put your car brakes in the center of the gas pedal?

Hey..... I have 2 glocks...... I love 'em..... but I don't rack 'em till I'm ready to fire 'em...... although a holster that encases the trigger serves as a safety...... it prevents you from accidentally grabbing the trigger on the draw.... but the guys that have a glock racked in their pants or blind in their pockets are at a higher risk of shooting themselves, never mind the bad guys.... IMO

[Chris]

Come on guys it all comes back to basic gun safety. I mean the stuff I learned when I was a little kid. (Always treat a gun as if it were loaded) As for the comment about having a gun cocked and locked in your pants or in a holster not being safe... Again basic gun safety 'Don't Put Your Finger On The Trigger Until Your Ready To Fire' I mean come on if you don't have those basic gun handling fundamentals down do us all a favor and don't carry a gun.

[Bob]

I'm going to have to go back to the old common sense rule. Glocks are tactical weapons. Tactical weapons are designed to aquire and engage enemies with speed and accuracy. As a former Army Ranger, and I'm sure there are many vets reading this blog, there is a saying that is used in combat patrols that could also be related to the Glock pistol. Sometimes you need to displace security for speed. Is the Glock as safe as a pistol with a manual safety? For a home defense gun owner, ofcourse not. But if you are planning on closing with a combatant, especially another soldier, you need to sacrifice that safety for speed. I thing the Glock is an excellent firearm particularly for police and any person working in a tactical environment with the proper equipment and training, i.e. a holster that covers the trigger. This weapon is after all ment to be drawn from a holster. Hell I wish we used it in the military instead of the M-9. Anybody looking to carry a unholstered pistol, i.e. a store owner looking for a small pistol to keep in pocket, I would highly recommend you find one with a thumb safetly that you could easily disengage and fire with one hand operation.

[Geo]

Thanks for that, Bob.

Regarding the M-9, does it have same the "half cock" feature that the Beretta 92FS has? In reality it's about 10% cocked, and the owner's manual says not to carry it in that mode. However, it would seem to be appropriate for a combatant who would only need to draw and pull the trigger. It would have a heavier trigger pull, but the motion would be the same as with a Glock.

[Bob]

Geo,

In response to your question, yes the M-9 does have a half cock feature. It is exactly like the 92FS only the guide rod is metal rather then plastic. You are correct, technically you could carry the weapon half cocked and draw it like a Glock. Ofcourse, this is assuming that the weapon was holstered on fire rather then safe. The trigger pull is still a little heavier then a Glock, at least as far as I can remember. I do not have technical data to back that statement up and it has been about 2 years since I have fired a M-9 so I am relying on memory. In the military, however, we always kept weapons on safe whether it was a sidearm or assault rifle. Through muscle memory, anyone could train to disengage a thumb activated safety quicker then the time it takes to aquire the target and using this method allows the shooter to pull the trigger just as fast as he would using a "saftey less" weapon. This is especially true with the HK USP's and the Taurus PT92 which is a knock off of the 92FS but has a easy to access thumb saftey and decocker located right behind the slide release. Very convenient in my opinion.

[AZ-XD.40Accident]

I recently was getting ready to clean an XD-.40 I was Going to use for C.C.W. I Was definitely not as cautious as usual. I ejected the Mag, Then I believe I pulled the slide back took a glance to see if chamber was clear of ant rounds. All clear. Normally I would pull the slide 2-3 times in order to be sure of a clear chamber, I will admit, I was not acting in a normal cautious manner. I have a friend that had a similar accident breaking his Glock down. He said after the fact, that a round was still in the weapon, when I pulled the slide to check if it was clear, then released it, I had Loaded the chamber?? My left hand was up over the slide, because that is how I had broken it down to clean in the past. Bang! Right into my left hand, entered the Bullet into my lower pointer finger somehow, breaking my pointer, middle, then the Shattering of my ring Finger, where it left a gaping hole, I like the other Gentlemen went right to the laundry room, for a towel. Then I turned the water on in the Kitchen, Running it over to cool the Burnt, Smashing feeling. With my right hand I called my girlfriend, No Answer, I Didn't want to call 911 it seemed like a long wait. I called her again, She answered, We live in an Apt. complex, she was just loading a painting in her car. I told her I need a ride to the E.R. She came upstairs panicked! I had my hand in a towel rapped tight. She is a fainter, I said Don't look at the Blood, which was Everywhere you looked. She called 911 on our way so they knew what to expect at the hospital. As we approached the ER I was Weak, They got me to a bed in triage, Where I regained a second wind. They said I was lucky that a hand surgeon was on the clock. I told them I couldn't have any Opiates for pain, Due to my Sobriety as a former Addict. The Surgeon, Said I would probably have my ring finger Amputated! I was Mad & I told him to please try to save it. I told him I heal well, & this wasn't my first injury of this magnitude. He said we'll see. I asked them to Please not inject any Opiates! This was important to me, having 13 months of Sobriety. They knocked me out with sedatives and Gas? I woke up 3 hours later, The first thing I saw was an Ex-Ray of what was my hand with a very small wire holding the shattered finger together. and the bone Fragments that were missing, were put together using surgical clay? I got out of the Hospital, after 2 days, so they could have me on antibiotics. When I got home. The Cops C.S.I. team had taken action, to determine that it was an accident. My Girlfriend, somehow managed to clean all of the signs of blood with her Mother, Who kept my Girlfriend out of the bloodiest rooms, to clean them herself. I was told the Bullet ended up in our ceiling, which is 1 ft. thick. the cops couldn't retrieve the bullet because it was 7 inches into the concrete ceiling! They had maintenance let them into my upstairs neighbors apt. he said later there was a lot of weed & the cops would be back for him, Because he had that Much! He is as old as Willie Nelson, But I never would have thought he smoked the Weed, Because he looks like a Golfer! I still need to go get My confiscated XD-.40 @ the Cop Shop. My hand Hurts like a SOB! I think it will be semi-functional in a year or so. That was about 2 weeks ago. I am open to comments, I realize my mistake, I got lucky. But I have to live with this now. I may have been negligent? Or Stupid even? But nobodies perfect. I am grateful nobody was hurt except me. I am now stronger, than before. What dosent kill you makes you Stronger! everything happens for a reason. With that, I will go ponder the reasons this may have happened???

[Geo]

That's a gruesome tale, AZ-XD.40Accident. Thanks for sharing this with us -- it's a lesson for everyone. And we all hope you regain the use of your hand.

[awmasparky]

OK here it goes, my lesson learned. I own a Kahr pm9, DAO. I bought it as a cc, and do not carry with one in the chamber. I would guess that it is safe to carry it this way but I just was not comfortable doing so. I place the gun every morning in a gun safe and lock it up. I felt that it was safer to leave the gun loaded in the safe than racking the slide in the house every night. My son decides that he wants to commit suicide so he gets into my safe. The safe is one that has an electronic lock, push button. He decided not to kill himself in the house and was planning to go somewhere else to do it. He removed the magazine and pulled the trigger in the house. And of course the gun went off into the night stand. When asked how did he got into the safe he said he just punched in 1-2-3-4. Now I know what you're thinking, no that was not my combination. I could not believe it, 1-2-3-4 worked. My actual combination worked as well. Needless to say that safe is not, and is no longer used. I have since changed my strategy and bought a gun with both a mag lock and integral gun lock not to mention it is stored in a mechanically key locked safe and a locking locker style cabinet.
By the way my son is 22 years old, you just never know. I was extremely angry with myself for not foreseeing this possibility. Hope this makes you think about how and where you store your guns.

[Geo]

Awmasparky, thanks for sharing that. I hope your son is OK.

Electronic locks have their pluses and minuses. Once during a lightening storm I got locked out of a hotel room that had an electronic lock, and the employees said it had happened before during a storm. I've been leery of electric locks ever since.

[Larry Robinson]

To have an unintended shooting of someone with any handgun you have to make two errors. First pointing the handgun at someone you don't want to shoot and second pulling the trigger.

[Geo]

That's right, Larry. Two wrongs definitely do not make a right.

[Barry]

if you read any accounts of the so called accidental discharges, there is one thing that all have in common....the operator was careless. it does not matter what type weapon you have....if you are too stupid or careless to exercise caution when handling a weapon or when trying to break it down for cleaning the you are nothing more than a complete and total idiot.

[Jake]

Hey Barry and all you others - everyone with AD stories on here admitted their mistakes. None of them blamed the gun and your smug attitude can't change the past and is not constructive.

There's always a human factor. You might accidentally shoot yourself someday.

[Philippe]

@barry:

No matter how careful you are. If you do the same thing (say, unload a gun) every day for a long time you'll end up messing up once (see below). The key is to find a routine that will take multiple mistakes to result in an actual injury.

I check that my glock's chamber is empty, and then I pull the trigger in a 'safe' direction. Like a wall that'll stop a round instead of my hand.

One amusing anecdote: one of the bodyguard of my country's president accidentally discharged his handgun in the pres' plane, prior to takeoff. Not many details were released but he probably he checked the chamber without removing the mag. Luckily he fired the gun at the floor, so the bullet ended up in someone's luggage...

[Geo]

Philippe,

That is a very interesting anecdote.

Does your country have a law similar to the Freedom of Information Act? If so the investigator's report about that incident should be available to the public if someone would make the request to the appropriate government agency.

If you can get that report I would be very interested in seeing it.

[tim]

i have two glocks a G21-C and a G26. i take issue with this statement you made regarding the glock trigger pull:

"And when there's a bullet in the chamber the hammer is almost fully cocked so there is only a minimal amount of trigger pressure needed to shoot it. "

this is not true. if you are concerned about glock accidental discharges, they make a handy plug that fits behind the trigger which must be popped out before the trigger can be pulled. i made one out of a wine cork. it works perfecly. lol.. and glocks will not fire if dropped because of internal safeties. all things considered it's the safest gun made. btw: i own several other handguns including a browning a starfire and a walther but i prefer glocks.

[Cliff Miller]

Old post, but I can't help but to weigh in. I hate to see anyone criticized for sharing the details of an accidental discharge. Any of us can do it right a thousand times, but just one slip - these guys sharing with us REALLY HELPS.
Remind me over and over and thanks for having the courage to share something that might save a life.

[Geo]

Excellent point, Cliff. I too am grateful for the sharing. We are all learning from this.

[Jim A]

I think it's wonderful that everyone has shared their stories so we can all learn from their mistakes. Thank you for that. BUT... the simple reality is that ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED. If you treat every gun as though this is the case you will never have an accident. I've been shooting and carrying for 25 years and have thankfully never had an accident. But it's not because I'm lucky, it's because I never forget I'm handling a deadly weapon always. I think these were all very preventable accidents. It's not the Glocks, it's the owners. Best regards.

[Geo]

A person's attention can stray when something becomes routine, and some handguns are more forgiving than others when that happens.

So that's a good point Jim A -- always remember that it's a deadly device and treat it with the caution it deserves.

[Mike]

Hey guys, I carry a Glock 23 as my duty pistol and a S&W 340 with 357mag loaded as a backup. I'm also in the National Guard As an MP where we shoot the M9. The heavy first trigger pull followed by light followup pulls combined with the large size and weight of the M9 makes me really despise it. It is accurate though. The G17 with external safety (MIl Spec requires a safety) would be a better alternative.

As far as AD, a plurality of departments carry the G22, with a majority carrying Glocks (meaning the most common handgun is the G22 and more than half of all US police departments carry Glocks). Two of the four primary gun safety rules are treat every gun as if it were loaded and keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot. I appreciate you guys sharing your mistakes, and accepting that they are your own mistake, not blaming the gun. The Glock trigger safety is meant to prevent a discharge if the trigger is caught on clothing or something. The trigger just be pulled from the center, it can't be pulled from the edges. The Glock also has a drop safety, so it will never fire when dropped. The striker is blocked until you pull the trigger. This design is not SA or DA, Glock calls it "safe action". If you treat a gun as if it was loaded, you would NEVER pull the trigger to clean it with the gun pointed at your hand. I remove the magazine and rack the slide twice then point in a safe direction and pull the trigger to clean it.

Some advice, I always carry with a round in the chamber, but when I get home I take the round out. If you never want to question whether there is a round in the chamber, when you have NO round in the chamber, carry decocked. The trigger can't be pulled and to chamber a round you have to rack the slide anyway. When my glock is at home, I leave it decocked. This is visually obvious and ads an extra level of safety. Even when it's decocked, I rack to check and dry fire again before disassembly. If someone checks the chamber standing in front of me, then hands me a firearm, I check it again anyway.

For beginners, IMO the Glock is still an excellent choice, but get used to carrying, handling, and firing before carrying with one in the pipe. This should really go for any auto pistol.

[Andy]

I have read most of the comments above and can't help but laugh at most. One thing I thought was interesting was the statement about the Glock being half-cocked or partially cocked. The weapon IS NOT coacked at all until you start pulling the trigger. As the trigger is pulled the firing pin (or whatever you want to call it) is pulled back. At a predetermined point (drop safety) the firing pin then is propelled forward just like a the action of releasing a ball on a pinball machine. I carry Glocks and as an instructor I have seen many different weapons at the range. I think all weapons are only as safe as the person handling them. The Glock may not be for everybody but I think it is a fine weapon. It has worked everytime I pulled the trigger and thats what I want in a handgun. As for the people with the negligent discharges just follow the Four Cardnal Rule for gun safety and you should NEVER have a problem!

[Shawn]

Gun safety yes but it does happen. Glock 36 discharged when removing it from my holster. 45 Cal Hollow point striking me in the upper thigh and traveling down below the knee. It has taken two years to get back to normal. Great gun but not for CC carry.

[Geo]

Thanks for sharing that, Shawn. I prefer handguns that have manual safeties, and there are plenty of good ones out there.

[Chabil]

My friend was just shot and killed a few days ago by an accidental discharge of his Glock, apparently. After what happened to him and after reading all of this, I would never own such a firearm.

RIP, Gil

[Geo]

We are very sorry to hear about your friend, Chabil. Can you direct us to a news article about that accidental discharge?

[Dc]

My hand looked like yours and I felt the same way. I was doing a secondary search of a trailer after it was cleared and looked in the overhead storage and the suspect stuffed in there. I jumped back and the gun discharged through my hand. I noticed the tigger pull is lighter on the first shot when its not shot in a while, especially if you touch that little part that stick out on the trigger. Yeah I live with this accidental discharge also. My problem was I started with a 38 and then to a Smith and Wesson 9mm. A glock is a totally different animal.

[Citizen]

I don't own a Glock, and I don't have anything against them. I've heard many good things about them, but I have seen two videos one a D.E.A. agent and one U.S. Marshal involved accidental discharges and they both involved the reholstering of their Glocks. Both these individuals have had proper training and experience handling their weapons and I'm sure they keep their finger off the trigger also. Maybe the trigger safety disengaged while catching a corner of the holster or clothing I'm thinking?

[Arthur Gamboa]

I don't know what all the hoopla is about. Basic gun safety is the core issue here. I have owned a glock g23 for 8 years and yes I carry with one in the chamber. If I were in a kill or get killed street situation: I would be dead by the time I "racked" a round into the chamber. Unfortunately, there is no margin for error with this excellent combat handgun. They go bang just like a revolver when you pull the trigger. I would feel safer in this situation than racking a round in a panic situation. I can guarantee that the officers with the "accidental" discharges did so by pulling the trigger.

[Dc]

I bet the Detroit officer had a Glock when he accidentally shot that 7 year old girl. Yeah, problem with basic gun safety again.

[Rudy]

Glocks are a very safe gun. All of these AD's are due to human error. I can't believe some of these comments I read on here. Some of these people shouldn't own a gun at all if they get complacent and don't follow basic semi-auto gun safety. To make sure it's unloaded, take out the mag, rack it twice and then lock the slide back and visually look down the barrel. That's the only way to be sure, and the ONLY way it should be done. Anything else is stupidity/complacency.

And yes DC, the problem with the Detroit police is basic gun safety. They used to use the Glock 22's. They had too many AD's, the department blamed the gun and they switched to the S&W MP model over a year ago. All Glocks had to be turned in. Looks like tragically for that 7 year old girl, it is the officers who are responsible for AD's, not the make of the gun.

[Arturo Gamboa]

I consider ANY hand gun loaded with one in the chamber until I have taken the magazine out and visually inspected the chamber for a round.
The cardinal rules of gun safety:

1. (the most important) CONSIDER ALL FIREARMS FULLY LOADED (with a round in the chamber).

2. Never offer or accept a gun. (ie: hand someone your gun or let them hand you theirs).

3. Never touch the trigger until you are ready to fire at your target.

There are several other rules but the above are the most important. I guarantee that if you follow the above: You will never have an accidental discharge. I own 8 handguns including a Glock (my favorite for CC). I carry it in a paddle holster which covers the trigger. At night, I keep it in a soft holster which covers the trigger. I have had the Glock for 10 years and have never had an accidental discharge (of any firearm) That's because I always follow (without exception) the above rules. There is no excuse for a trained individual to have an accidental ( I call them negligent) discharge of any firearm. A Glock is designed to have a round in the chamber. What are you going to say to the criminal that is about to stab you in your sleep? "wait a couple of seconds while I rack a round" or are you going to pick up the pistol and pull the trigger? Oh btw you can see (externally) if there is a round in the chamber on a Glock. It still does not relieve you from the above 3 rules. Get a revolver if you are too stupid to follow the simple rules above--but guess what? they still go bang when you pull the trigger!

[Arturo Gamboa]

An addendum.The Glock has a safety that is built into the trigger The above mentioned discharges "while holstering the gun" are impossible. I have tried all these simulated situations with my unloaded Glock 23 (clothing getting caught on the trigger, haphazardly re holstering etc.) and have failed to pull the trigger. The people involved in the above simply became complacent and accidentally pulled the trigger. I agree with the NYPD replacing the Glock if their officers are too dumb or complacent to safely handle them. Too bad-IMHO-they are the best out of the box combat handguns available. Also, like the gentleman above stated: they will never discharge when dropped-because the firing pin is not engaged unless the trigger is fully pulled.

[Bill]

It is not impossible to discharge a glock while holstering it. Arturo, you are seriously WRONG.

[Bill]

IMO the Glock is remarkable ONLY in that it is so devoid of common safety features. As a "combat" handgun (as if there is such a thing), it is mediocre at best.

I can think of at least a dozen other designs that i'd rather take on patrol, right off the top of my head.

[Arturo Gamboa]

Well, let me tell you, It would have to be one shitty designed holster (one that I would not own). I find it interesting that most people who knock Glocks never owned one. I have owned a G23 for over 10 years. I have a Sig .45 that is a better "combat" handgun and but it is much heavier. I also carry a custom Colt 1911A1 but it too is heavy! My G23 can hold 14 .40cal and is Still much lighter than my Sig or Colt.
Please enlighten me as to how it is possible to discharge a Glock without pulling the trigger?
(which negates your contention that Glocks are devoid of "safety features"--it has a safety in the trigger-you absolutely cannot fire a Glock unless the trigger safety is pulled along with the trigger). You probably don't know this since you don't own one.
I like Glocks because:
1. All I have to do is pull the trigger and it goes bang (no "racking a round" or fumbling with safties).
2. They are light, durable and reliable. (I have never had a failure to: fire, eject, stovepipe or light primer strike---not even one!) It has never jamed on me.
3. It is very accurate. I can hit what I am shooting at.
Since most scenarios that I could be involved with are "close quarters" and concealed carry-I consider it ideal. I will not be doing any sniper or anti-aircraft work with it.

[MauiSam]

I have a SIG 226 9mm and a Bersa Thunder UC PRO 9mm. I have always practiced good gun handling safety and I have never had an accident of any kind. I am 70 years old, NRA Life Member and Here is how I look at my guns or anyone elses.

Never ever put finger on trigger!!!!!!
Remove Magazine
Rack the slide 3 times.
Decock weapon (both SIG and Bersa have decock)
Insert empty magazine.

Same procedure used when cleaning guns.

[Richard]

My owen case I bought used glock 17 which was police trade in which turn out had worn out slide release that gun shop said good deal. It was not becuase took rang gun slide would not lock back on last round. Same place refuse buy gun back told me that nothing wrong with gun after market part they had fix issue. So stupidly agree with that. Sure enough made same mistake most glock owener do went unload my firearms take apart. Pull magzine out did not rack slide did same sin as all above pull tiger bang round went off send 9mm round in my door in door jam my place. I was stupid dumb had call Arizona Pd report what happen which came out made report took the gun. All thing make Glock great are all same thing make them dangers. Now under stand why lot police deparments are going way from them safer handguns. If look how take part Glock seem most discharge of them happen becuase have rack slide back pull the tigger all way back get slide off gun. When get my Glock back from police deparment I am gone sell for no longer beleaver that simpler handgun is safe one. There many other gun makers who make hanguns that do not make pull tigger handgun get slide off it. Now strongly beleave Glock not safer than other handguns out there on market.

[Lucky but Stupid]

I had an accidental discarge with a glock 19 while taking it apart to clean it the round passed through my hand on bottom and exited out side i was extremly lucky i only have some numbness in two fingers and a bad scar i still shoot glocks and carry them often i dont blaame gun just a stupid mistake by not checking gun i tell this story often to remind people of gun saftey it can happen to anyone i was avery experienced firearm user.

[Rob]

Ridiculous. There would NEVER EVER be an unintended discharge if gun owners would simply learn and follow the 4 LAWS OF GUN SAFETY. Christ, if you only follow any two of them and are too dense to remember the others, you will be ok. No excuses. These people are careless.. No sympathy.

[Sam Zimmerman]

I spent over eight years in the US Army Special Forces, and I have witnessed two ADs and two accidental shooting. In these cases the gun was not at fault, but the operators were. As stated before clear every weapon and keep your fingers away from the triggers. The Glocks are not to blame. I have a FN FNP 45 I keep loaded with a round in the chamber, but I drill myself on unloading and loading. If I have an AD, I'm positive it will be due to my stupidity. Drill Drill! Drill! Safety first always.

[Pepex]

Hey Justin - I, too, recently dieedcd that I needed a new pistol. 15 years ago, I was a Rep. for beretta, and have always loved to shoot their guns, so I started there. But, over the course of the years, I've actually shot the Glocks better than the Berettas. I was at the Glock booth at SHOT Show, talking to an old friend who happens to be the head of LE trainng for Glock in North America. I had dieedcd to get a Glock, just not sure which one. We went to the guns on display, and I picked up each one to see how they felt. The only decision left was which caliber. I sort of had my mind made up on a .40, but I asked Mark. His answer - "Are you going to shoot a lot? (Yes) Do you want to hit what you are shooting at, exactly where you want to hit it? (Yes)" So - A Glock 17 in 9mm is en route.The discussion of caliber is one that will go on forever, but I DO remember from my previous shooting days that the 9's were easier to shoot well, at least for me. And, they're certainly cheaper to shoot! I've always thought that MOST guns shoot a lot better than their owners, and the way to shoot a gun well - any gun - is to practice until it becomes second nature. I can't wait to begin shooting my Glock this summer. Here's a fun "game" that we used to do with the Berettas (Obviously, you need the right range area) We would shoot inside a quarry - huge backdrop. Take an empty cigarette pack (or something similar), crumble it up, and throw it on the ground about 25' in front of you. Start shooting it. The package will jump all over the place from the concussion of the bullets hitting the ground and you'll need to move the gun quickly to get onto the pack for the next shot. You get really compfortable handling the gun, getting used to the site picture and trigger pull, ... doing this. Word of warning, though - you can blow through a LOT of ammo doing this.You'll love your Glock - I look forward to hearing more about it.joe

[D]

As a firearm instructor, gunsmith, competitive shooter, and factory trained armorer I hate to break the news to those trying to blame the gun for their negligent discharge. Not accidental discharge, there is no such thing, only negligence by the user. When was the last time any of you have ever seen a gun go off all by itself just sitting there on a table? Not many. Once you add in to the equation the error prone human who is negligent in their handling of a firearm and you get a negligent discharge. If everyone would follow the late Jeff Copper's safety rules, none of these negligent discharges would have resulted in injury. 1) All guns are always loaded. 2) Never let the muzzle cover anything you aren't willing to destroy. 3) KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET. 4) Be sure of your target.

The Glock. It is a striker fired, recoil operated, locked breach design with 3, count them, 3 safeties. The trigger safety, the striker safety, and the drop safety. These 3 safeties are sequentially disabled only when the trigger is pulled. Compared to a design with a sear, firing pin, and hammer it is virtually impossible for a Glock to fire even if dropped, kicked, dragged or hammered as long as none of that ends up pulling the trigger far enough to disengage all 3 safeties, finish pulling back the striker, and finally releasing the striker. Those that believe a design, such as most designs patterned after the John Moses Browning 1911, with external manually manipulated safeties are less prone to NDs are ignorant of the topic and should spend a little more time studying rather than writing their uneducated opinion. For instance, take the older 70 series 1911. Manual safety on or off, there is NOTHING mechanically blocking the firing pin from moving forward and striking the primer. Negligent discharges could occur if the gun was dropped on a hard surface and the inertia carried the firing pin into the primer hard enough. Even with the advent of the firing pin block safety on the 80 series, a 1911 is no less prone to negligent discharge when the operator on the end of the grip frame unintentionally moves the trigger.

For the record, I am not biased to one design or the other, I like both but for different reasons.

[Charlie Cochran]

I have been a Glock Master Armorer for over 20 years. I have also been a full-time instructor for the State Police Academy for more than 20 years. I retired several years ago and I have never seen such misinformed, ridiculous, ignorant drivel in my 66 years. I've seen just about every kind of negligent discharge imaginable and it all comes down to people assuming that the weapon is unloaded. Failing to check the chamber and putting your finger on the trigger at an inappropriate time are the main culprits' Not checking the chamber of the firearm is just plain stupid. This doesn't even account for discharges that occur because of a lack of knowledge about how the weapon functions. Then there are those who just have to handle their firearms because it gives them som sort of thrill. Then of course there are those who simply naturally incompetent and would be dangerous with a slingshot and a pocket full of marbles. Accidental discharge? Bullshit.

[Mike in ca]

The glock trigger itself can be a loaded chamber indicator if its forward in the trigger guard rack n check the hole. If its touching the back of the guard/front of the grip its unloaded not cocked. This does not work with striker s&ws the trigger looks the same all the time

[Roger]

Well want to hear my story? Let me tell you something about keeping your guns loaded. I always keep one in the rail and have never done so other wise. I grew up around guns my whole life and am from the country. I moved to the city where I meet my old lady. She isn't as hip about guns. And always bitches me out about keeping one in the rail. I have tactical training and have been shot at several times in diffrent situations. So it's a no brainier to be ready. Well on of these times I had a my glock m27 and I cleaned it and then racked one in one night when we where hanging out. My girlfriends friend came over and we where watching tv. She said don't keep one in the chamber I didn't want to argue in front of her friend so I just agreed to make them feel happy what where the odds anyway.....There was a loud commotion outside they where going outside to smoke a cigg. So they where going to investigate I guess. I didn't hear the commotion this is what they told me after the Incident. I was in the bathroom I heard them go outside and then I heard two shots I grabbed my gun and ran outside like mad max. My girlfriend I sall was ok her friend got shot in the leg by to (urban types) robbing a car. I looked at them standing about 10 feet away getting ready to execute them. They sall me I pointed and click nothing. Boom I got nicked in the arm I racked one and bam bam bam. Game over. Needless to say I don't care what anyone says about keeping your gun loaded that story could have been way diffrrnt. There was about 1/10 of a second that could have been life or death if my assalient wasn't holding there gun like a retared(sideways) and knew how to shoot. Everyone in that story that wasn't a criminal made out alright that's all I can say. And the cops acted like I was a criminal. And I never got my gun back and the whole ordeal pretty much ruined my gf and her friends life. There psychologically not well. I have mixed feelings on what happend. I should have never not been paying attention to detail and I should have known to keep my gun loaded because you never know when that 1/10 of a second is going to save your life regardless if you are a civilian Leo or what have you.

[Philip]

Agreed, guns don't fire all by themselves. But if a particular design causes markedly more AD than others, one HAS to question the design. If more training is needed, if more attention is essential, if distraction is easier, then something is wrong.

Like in aviation, when an airliner goes down a lot of very knowledgeable people spend months or even years analizing what happened. It could be as stupid as the wrong switch pulled, and of course it's the pilot's fault... But if that switch has been pulled because the position requires excessive thinking, especially under stress, then the design is changed.

A good design makes it easy for humans to operate it without mistakes.

A bad design relies on humans adapting to the way the object works.

Guess which one will be safer?

So yes, the shooter is to blame for pulling the trigger when he was not supposed to, but, I repeat, if one design is significantly more prone to accidents than others, instead of blaming and insulting people, which is easy, one should reconsider the design.

[Leo]

Glock won't fire unless trigger is pulled, people who shoot themselves by accident shouldn't have firearms! Treat ever firearms as they are loaded never assume otherwise, keep pointed in a safe direction, remove magazines or rounds if revolver and physically check to make sure firearm unloaded! Best safety is your brain not the ones inside and or exterior of the firearms. Store separately from ammo and locked aways from children.

[Riley]

Old post but just want to say I've known 3 people who have shot themselves, every one of them was a moron and ever one of them did it with a glock. 2 drawing the weapon, 1 from a holster and 1 from his pants. The 3rd guy did it while cleaning. I agree that dumb people are the ones who shoot themselves most of the time but still 2 of them didn't mean to pull the trigger.

They were also also the ones who always argued that glocks were just as safe as any other handgun.

[Jay]

Alright folks...I got a story for ya. When I was about 13 years old I witnessed an accidental discharge. A neighbor kid a few houses down had a DNR hunter safety course held at his house about once a month. His father headed up the operation. Strange thing is that his father was literally about 500lbs due to M.S. and was bound to his large recliner. Oddly enough, this thing had a set of wheels and motor on it that allowed him to somewhat get around. This particular day he had taught a course and had an assortment of weapons laying on a table. My brother and i had just came over to hang out when they were wrapping up the class. Like I said, myself, my brother, and said friend were all 13. My friends older sister was 18. My friends Dad told his oldest to put the firearms away which for whatever reason fell on deaf ears. So...we started putting them away. I dont know why but my friend loaded a magazine, racked the slide and pulled the trigger. I was standing a few feet in front of him. I'm guessing he had his finger on the trigger and as he racked the slide and released it...BOOM!! The bullet entered the wall above my left shoulder about two feet above. I will never forget the look on his face...that look of pure horror as his ring finger dangled by just a hairs thickness of skin. He panicked and started running around, eventually running to the calls of his disabled father in the living room. 13 YEARS OLD. Pins, plates, skin graphs, therapy(physical and psychological) And he to this day(15years later) doesn't have full mobility or feeling in that hand. Though it was tragic and I feel bad for my friend, I am glad I had experienced it. It taught me first hand the consequences of poor educstion/handling of firearms. I own roughly 10 firearms ranging from handguns, shotguns, And ar-15's. I'm thankful because I diligently practice what I preach...safety. Educating our youth and inexperienced is All our responsibility as gun owners. Thanks.

[Cut The Wood website]

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[CutTheWood]

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[Frank Gal]

Thanks for the blog and the comments. It is very educational. I'd like to address the comments about operator error. Do you really believe you will never make an error? Have a momentary lapse of attention? I expect myself to eventually make a mistake. That is why I keep the blade guard on my table saw, and I carry a revolver. My Glock stays in the safe for home defense duty only.