Open Carry

Heard a radio ad today asking people to sign a petition favoring the open carrying of handguns and the abolition of laws prohibiting open carry. Here's a link to the Texas petition which starts out like this: "We hold that all citizens who may lawfully purchase a handgun be allowed to carry openly in public in the State of Texas except for those places prohibited by law. We also call for state preemption of all handgun laws concerning open carry in Texas."

In support of that it goes on to make the following arguments, (paraphrased):

• Citizens' have the constitutional right to bear arms and defend themselves;

• Criminals are deterred by citizens carrying guns but not by gun prohibitions;

• It's inconvenient to carry an handgun concealed, and it slows down the quick draw;

• Other states allow it, and people there aren't bothered by it.

I believe that the concealed carry laws have helped prevent crimes, or at the very least, have made people feel safer. But I'm not convinced that open carry is really going to accomplish anything more than the concealed carry laws already do. The loophole isn't whether or not someone has to conceal his/her handgun, it's that there are so many places where carrying handguns is prohibited, i.e., gun free zones. Those are the places where the mass murderers like to strike. And unfortunately, the very first and last sentences of the above mentioned petition seek to preserve the gun free zones.

Then there's the strutting: the novices and gun exhibitionists who will make spectacles of themselves. "Mine's bigger than yours," etc.

People who haven't taken the class and gotten a concealed carry license will probably be more supportive of this than those who did. But if lawmakers do decide open carry is the way to go then they will most likely require a license for open carry, too. So it's not going to be a way to skip class.

Therefore, I'm basically indifferent about this issue. Good luck to them. If it's successful, fine. If not, I'm OK with that, too.

Comments

[Rob O.]

"[...] it slows down the quick draw."

Oh c'mon. No disrespect intended to you, George, but who are these people - descendants of Wyatt Earp? Maybe people who watching entirely too many spaghetti Westerns?

I've grown so tired of hearing the argument that people need handguns to protect themselves or their families. I know quite a number of handgun owners yet nary a one of them have ever drawn a gun (as a civilian) for the sake of self- or home-protection. This argument is overplayed and weak.

Citizens should be allowed to bear arms in the form of rifles. Handguns should be reserved for those in law-enforcement, military, and similar fields. And if you must fall back on that tired old "family protection" spiel, then someone explain to me why a shotgun wouldn't serve that function better than a handgun...

[Suzanne Scism Hildebrand]

I am a strong supporter of the right to bear firearms but am opposed to the open carry. I dissgree with Rob O in that the Constitution does not specify long arms as opposed to pistols. That would be the first step toward gun control.

[Mike Stollenwerk]

Open Carry is the only constititonally protected way to carry, see discussion in DC v. Heller.

Only 6 states ban open carry; most do not require a license to open carry.

Sign petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/texasoc/petition.html

Contact your legislators at http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum66/17184.html

Give money to support more radio ads at http://www.opencarry.org/thunder.html

[Geo]

Rob O., the words "quick draw" were mine, not theirs. Click the link to see the exact wording in the petition. You write with the passion of someone who isn't going to change his mind, so I'll just mention that there are websites dedicated to reporting stories about people who used handguns to avoid being victimized. Those stories seldom make it through the main stream media filters.

I doubt if very many people would want to carry around a long gun except to make a point. And an emailer reminded me that people purporting to be members of the Black Panther Party were carrying shotguns openly in Jasper, Texas, following a murder there a few years ago. So apparently it does happen.

Here's something I would love to see and photograph: a shotgun protruding from the sunroof of a Prius.

Suzanne, you are obviously a solid supporter of gun owners' rights. Good for you. And thank goodness for the Bill of Rights; the U.S. would be a much different place without them.

Mike, thanks for enlightening us about Heller, I haven't read it. Good luck with the petition. It's too bad Texans can't put initiatives on the statewide ballot and put issues to a vote rather than having to plead with lawmakers.

[Gary]

Hello
I live in Arizona where unlicensed open carry is legal. I open carry some, but mostly conceal carry. I like having the option. Open Carry is not unusual here, but it's not something you see all the time. I suspect that would be the case in Texsas also. It's a right, it should be allowed. There is no issue with it here, or you would certainly hear the Brady campaign bring it up all the time. It would not be an issue in Texas.

Gary

[Geo]

That's very interesting, Gary, thanks for your input. Maybe you are right in that it wouldn't be a big deal in Texas. I'm becoming more and more accepting of the idea.

[Eric]

George, as a Texas CCP holder, I'm ambivalent about this movement. I rarely exercise my right to carry in public places, but it's a conscious decision made on the basis of risk assessment, using my own personal criteria. I do tend to think that at least some of the crime deterrent factor of having armed citizens comes from the uncertainty of not knowing for sure who is armed. However, that's just an opinion for which I have no supporting data.

I doubt that most violent criminals exercise much logic when they decide to do their nefarious deeds, and so trying to assume their mindsets is probably an exercise in futility. But if I were a Bad Guy (instead of a Really Annoying But Harmless Guy), I'd look for the dudes openly packing heat and target them first. That is, if I didn't decide I was outnumbered and run away. (See what I mean?)

I agree with Rob that there's very little chance that someone will ever have to defend themselves or their family with a gun. I don't personally know anyone who has done that. But that's not really the point, as others have observed. It's a matter of our rights as citizens. If you choose not to exercise a right, that's your prerogative, but that has no bearing on the ability of others to exercise those same rights.

Good post; good discussion.

[angostino nunn]

I support the open carry law.....i hope all of you open carry nuts are allowed to pack your six gun or even a shotgun....i want to see you all shoot yourselves as quickly as possible, at they very least the cops will shoot you dead when they arrive at a crime scene and find you with your sixgun out....on your way to the hospital you can tell them about the 2nd amendment right to carry.....go for it, you have my vote

[Geo]

Thanks Eric. I think you are absolutely right about the possible deterrent factor of not knowing whether a citizen is armed.

And your attitude about actually carrying a weapon is good common sense. If a person going there needs a gun for protection, don't go there.

[Gary]

Just thinking out loud here, but I've gone back and forth about the deterrence factor of open carry. In a world where 25% of all people carried and criminals knew it, I think crime would virtually go away, at least in areas that weren't dominated by gangs and drug-related activities. I don't want to sound too chauvinistic, but if most men carried a firearm openly, what criminal would walk into a restaurant or mall knowing that they'll be cut down as soon as they pull their gun out. Open carrying is the only way that criminals will realize what they're up against.

I realize the tactical advantage that you have by carrying concealed, but personally I would prefer to never have to have the hassle of shooting someone - I'd much prefer the perp never get to that point.

[Geo]

Gary, that mass killing in Mumbai is fresh on everybody's mind, and we all probably wonder whether it could happen in the U.S. That sort of violence is much more terrifying than the thought of a criminal robbing a convenience store, restaurant or bank. It probably isn't worth the risk of a citizen to try to intervene in such a robbery as the owners have already factored in the risk of a robbery.

A Mumbai style assault is an altogether different matter as everyone present would be at risk. It's certainly something we all would like to deter, and maybe a mix of concealed and open carry might accomplish that. But there will still be the gun free zones, and those places would be the most likely target.

[Gary]

You're exactly right. If I'm standing in line at the bank and the guy next to me try's to rob the bank, I have no intention of intervening. If however, he starts threatening or has 1 shot go off, I will probably try to do something. It's a situation where there is no right or wrong action, you just have to do the best you can. Just like a LEO would do.

And as you say, a terrorist situation is totally different. If you give in and are taken hostage, you probably don't have very good odds of surviving, whether in a plane or a motel.

But regardless of the 2 situations, a visibly armed society, IMO is a good thing. I'm not sure of the limitations of carry in Israel, but they've certainly limited the amount of terrorist shootings there since the populace started arming themselves. I think a terrorist 'perfect day' scenario is probably more disturbing and may even be considered worse than sneaking in and detonating a nuclear device. Pretty scary times we live in.

[Geo]

Right you are, Gary.

[Chet Szymecki]

For those who have not read any scholarly research regarding the effectiveness of citizens carrying handguns for protecting I would reference work by Dr. Gary Kleck from Florida State University. In the recent Supreme Court decision, District of Columbia v. Heller, his work was frequently quoted.

I am a husband, father, and citizen. It is my duty to protect my family and others. The probability of encountering a violent felon can be minimized but never eliminated. This is why I carry open or concealed 100% of the time. Here in Virginia open carry is a non-issue.

[Geo]

Thanks, Chet. I have not read any of Dr. Kleck's work, but I'll try to find some of it. And it's very interesting that open carry is a non issue in Virginia.